My first thought was a German Stein became sentient and went to fetch beer for the good lady.

IMO this isn’t taking science or philosophy seriously. It’s making arguments based on nonsense like living floating brains in space being a possibility, or the ridiculous idea that in infinite time everything will eventually happen….which is silly.
I don’t think even everything that COULD happen would happen even if it were given an infinite amount of time (which is not a reality either)….and certainly not things that are impossible like sentient disembodied brains in space.

I dislike this pseudoscience masquerading as real scientific theory. It’s not even real philosophy…it’s the kind of thing mediocre physics students think about when they’re tripping balls then write Marvel comic books about.

Science better please. 🤦‍♂️

From the guy who said Jan 6 was a false flag operation by BLM, I would be worried if you agreed. True Americans care that there was an attempted overthrow of the democratically elected government….morons like you think Benghazi was more criminal even though fewer died and there was no attempted coup there, or government involvement in the attack, unlike Jan 6 that was apparently directed minute by minute directly from Trump’s lazy boy in front of his TV.

There’s zero fear, Bobby. Trump could not win again…he only won because the DNC is so ridiculously crooked and inept that they dove Bernie’s voters to the dark side. Now that sentient people see him as the narcissistic con man he’s always been, and the consequences of electing him, even the American voter isn’t stupid enough to repeat that horrific mistake.

Lol….sinking you say? By what metric? Citations needed for any claim from you…..citations from reputable sources not being spoofed by .col websites in Columbia either.

Trump was and is an unmitigated disaster that cost America tens of trillions and over 600000 lives, our unity, our international standing, and our national sanity….what’s Biden cost us….be specific, give citations. Biden isn’t my first choice, but he’s acceptable, a ray of illuminating sunshine after the blindness from staring directly into the sun that came before.

Because internet connectivity just wasn't enough, we had to make a sentient toaster.

Woo boy, this is a doozy! The fact of the matter is a video comment section is not the place to have this conversation. There's too much to discuss, too many questions from one another that are best asked soon after they're conceived, etc. I frankly just don't have the time to respond to everything you said. Don't take this as acquiescence; if you'd like to have a Zoom chat some time, I'd be down.

In any event, I'll respond to what I find either the most important or at least most interesting:

Having theories is definitely the best way to go about most of the things you consider fact (for the moment), but the fact of the matter (no pun intended) is that at some point you'll need to use some of those claims as fact/belief in order to take action. And it's just human nature to, if one believes in a claim for long enough, it becomes fact, despite all your suggestions of objectivity. It's easy to say you're a scientist through and through, but if you're really someone who doesn't believe anything and merely theorize things, I think you'd be a sad human being. But that's a claim that I leave up to the scientists.

> Yes, and I eat animals because they're delicious.

You think that's a defensible moral claim? I find that disgraceful. If you truly think your own pleasure is worth sentient beings' lives then... I don't know what to say to you. That strikes me as callous and unempathetic, 2 traits you often assert as shameful. This is my point. You sound pretty obstinate to at least a reasonable claim. To respond with just "they're tasty". You don't sound reasonable to me.

> You may be correct, but eating meat is hardly the worst thing humans are up to.

Aw, come on @newtboy, I thought better of you than to give me a logical fallacy. The fact that you're resorting to logical fallacies wwould indicate to me that either you're confronting some cognitive dissonance, otherwise why would you stoop to such a weak statement?

> I gladly discuss vegetarianism with honest people, but I'm prepared when they start spouting bullshit like " eating any red meat is more harmful than smoking two packs a day of filterless cigarettes" ...

There is a lot of scientific research (not funded by Big ___) that is currently spouting this "bullshit". What happened to your receptive, scientific, theory-based lifestyle? It's true nutrition science is a fucking smog-filled night mare considering how much money is at stake, but I find it telling that a lot of the corporations are using the same ad men from Big Cigarette to stir up constant doubt.

Again, I find it peculiar that you are highly suspicious of big corporations... except when it comes to something that you want to be true.

Again, this is my point. Take a moment, take a few breaths, and look inside. Can you notice that you're acting in the exact same fashion as the people you purport to be obscenely stubborn?

Check out NutritionFacts if you want to see any of the science. Actual science. I would hope that it would give you at least somedoubt and curiosity.

That's a true scientist's homeostatic state: curiosity. Are you curious to investigate the dozens (hundreds?) of papers with a truly non-confirmation-biased mind? How much of a scientist are you?

> I've never met a vegan that wasn't a bold faced liar in support of veganism, so I'm less likely to give them a full chance at convincing me.

This, for me, raises all sorts of red flags. That's quite a sweeping claim.

> Again, that would be long held theories in my case, and it's not hard to change them. Mad cow disease got me to change until I was certain it wasn't in America. No, I'm not recoiling. I'll listen to anyone who's respectful and honest.

So, you're willing to make decisions based on self-interest and not morality? Well, duh. Everyone does that. It doesn't sound like you had a self-reflective moment. It sounds like you merely had a self-interested decision based on the risk to your own health.

And finally, all your talk about Bob -- of course he acts, consistently, like a twat. I just don't like feeding trolls. I don't think there's anyone on Videosift who's on the precipice and would be pushed over into the Alt-right Pit by Bob's ridiculous nonsense.

> Edit: in general I agree that dispassionate fact based replies with references are better at convincing people than derision, there are exceptions, and there are those who are unconvinceable and disinterested in facts that don't support their lies.

Ironically, I think science has disproved this. Facts don't change minds in situations like this. There are lots of articles on this. I didn't have the wherewithal to dig into their citations, but I leave that (non-confirmation-biased) adventure for you. [1]

---

I knew I wouldn't make this short, but I think it's shorter than it could have been.

Lastly, I'm with @BSR; I do appreciate your perseverance. Not everyone has as much as you seem to have! Whenever I see Bob... doing his thing, I can always be assured you'll take most of the words from my mouth. [2]

[1]
Why Facts Don’t Change Our Minds | The New Yorker
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds

This Article Won’t Change Your Mind - The Atlantic
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/03/this-article-wont-change-your-mind/519093/

Why People Ignore Facts | Psychology Today
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/words-matter/201810/why-people-ignore-facts

Why Many People Stubbornly Refuse to Change Their Minds | Psychology Today
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/think-well/201812/why-many-people-stubbornly-refuse-change-their-minds

Why Facts Don't Always Change Minds | Hidden Brain : NPR
https://www.npr.org/transcripts/743195213

[2] This comment has not been edited nor checked for spelling and grammatical errors. Haven't you got enough from me?

There is but one and I am legion.

The book's message was any sentient being is God, God is one, therefore we are all one, both part of a whole and the whole. It was a confusing book.

Run The Jewels - JU$T

Mastered economics 'cause you took yourself from squalor (Slave)
Mastered academics 'cause your grades say you a scholar (Slave)
Mastered Instagram 'cause you can instigate a follow (Shit)
Look at all these slave masters posin' on yo' dollar (Get it? Yeah)

Look at all these slave masters (Ayy) posin' on yo' dollar (Get it? Yeah)
Look at all these slave masters (Ayy) posin' on yo' dollar (Get it?)
Look at all these slave masters (Ayy) posin' on yo' dollar (Get it? Yeah)
Look at all these slave masters

Ayy
Business time, I'm on mine, I be mindin' mine (Make money)
Every time on my grind, I'm just tryna shine (Stay sunny)
Make a dollar, government, they want a dozen dimes (No cap)
The petty kind, might kill ya 'cause they see you shine (Stay strapped)
I done had to have a talk with myself plenty times (For real)
Am I a hypocrite 'cause I know I did plenty crimes? (Yes, I'm is)
I get broke too many times, I might slang some dimes (Back to trappin')
You believe corporations runnin' marijuana? Ooh (How that happen?)
And your country gettin' ran by a casino owner (Ooh)
Pedophiles sponsor all these fuckin' racist bastards (They do)
And I told you once befo' that you should kill your master (It's true)
Now that's the line that's probably gon' get my ass a-assassinated (Yeah-yeah, yeah)

Master of these politics, you swear that you got options (Slave, yeah)
Master of opinion 'cause you vote with the white collar (Slave)
The Thirteenth Amendment says that slavery's abolished (Shit)
Look at all these slave masters posin' on yo' dollar (Get it?)

Look at all these slave masters (Ayy) posin' on yo' dollar (Get it? Yeah)
Look at all these slave masters (Ayy) posin' on yo' dollar (Get it?)
Look at all these slave masters (Ayy) posin' on yo' dollar (Get it? Yeah)
Look at all these slave masters

(Confucius say)
Man, you better duck out, get the bag and then bug out (Uh)
Try to run home, you might run your luck out
'Cause just when your bases loaded
They'll roll a grenade in the dugout (You're out)
Earth folk, not a mellow bunch
We got our thumbs in the air like Hell or bust (Uh)
Look at who we done blessed with our trust
I don't think we'll be left with too much
Hand on my heart and my mind on my drugs
Got a Vonnegut punch for your Atlas shrug
They love to not love, it's just that dumb
Lord, sweet Buddha, please make me numb
Brain bounce off walls like a sentient Roomba
Just found out his creator's stupid
Lit by the supermoon, I'm too lucid
Plus got shrooms in the blood, I'm zoomin'
Beep beep, Richie, this is New York City
The X on the map where the pain keep hitting
Just us ducks here sitting
Where murderous chokehold cops still earnin' a livin'
Funny how some say money don't matter
That's rich now, isn't it? Get it? Comedy
Try to sell a pack of smokes to get food
Get killed and it's not an anomaly
But hey, it's just money

Mastered economics 'cause you took yourself from squalor (Slave, yeah)
Mastered academics 'cause your grades say you a scholar (Slave)
Mastered Instagram 'cause you can instigate a follow (Shit, yeah)
Look at all these slave masters (Yeah-yeah)
Let it sink in (Yeah)

20/20, run the map
Raw, I'm uncut in my hourglass
Don't watch it spill to the bottom half
You see the piece, now run it fast
On the tarmac in a Starter jack
C4 when I run it back
Like a track star run a record lap?
Nah, like when his needle catch (Yeah)
Clean look, poet pugilist
A shooter's view, a Zapruder flick (Yeah)
Too rude for ya rudiments
Who convinced you you could move against the crew in this?
Comin' up through the fence
Offshore outta Port-au-Prince (Yeah)
Louverture left his fingerprints
On our hearts at the gate and the world our residence
How can we be the peace
When the beast gonna reach for the worst? (Yeah)
Tear all the flesh off the Earth
Stage set for a deafening reckoning
Quick like the pace of a verse
So I'm questioning this quest for things
As a recipe for early death threatening (Yeah)
But the breath in me is weaponry
For you, it's just money

Wow. Awesome.
*doublepromote *quality science.....a potentially exponential computing advancement, great until it becomes sentient and murderous.

Next, can they tackle Entangled Quantum Particle computing and communication. If we go to Mars, it would be great to have instantaneous communication instead of a varying delay each way.

Bob, I'll try to ignore your having just being an ignorant douchbag who rudely dismissed those with far more knowledge and personal experience than you possess, simply because they disagreed with your non- medically based, non-scientific based, thoughtless, inhumane political position and I'll try a different tact.....

How is it that, in 2018, you are advocating slavery more foul than the African slave trade....yes, slavery.

Forcing one person to fulfill all the bodily functions of another, brain dead potential "person" (and make no mistake, a blastocyst is not a person, but for sake of argument and your limited understanding capabilities I'll let you claim it is one this one time)....that's Mengele level inhumanity and slavery.

You claim to believe in individual liberties over vague social responsibility....except when you don't.

Forcing one person to physically support another is so far to the left of full socialism you seem to think it went all the way around to the right. It doesn't work that way.
To add the typical right wing slippery slope argument, if the government can force one person to be life support for another potential person, they can force healthy people to give up organs to the unhealthy, or be consigned to hospitals to be used as human dialysis and so forth.
Until those cells can and have survived on their own without support, and can and have functioned as a mammal (meaning breathed, circulated body fluids, and consumed and evacuated foodstuffs) they have not reached "living human" status, and even if you can't grasp that fact, at no point can there be a requirement that another person acts as their sentient intensive care unit without reinstating legal slavery.

Why do you advocate slavery?

When are you donating your kidney and partial liver, and your children's? If you aren't, by your logic you're at least a double murderer and so are they. Why should I or anyone take morality advice from a double murderer?

Design a procedure where the offending not yet human can be safely removed without any (or at least less than an abortion would cause) risk to the mother, but survive on it's own without an incubator-slave, then come back and we'll talk.... until then forced incubation and forced birth is monstrously draconian socialism of a kind even Mengele would turn away from in disgust.

Edit: I came up with an argument I think might change your mind....how many baby Newtboys would you force on the planet before you decided abortion should be mandatory in some cases?

It looks like the whale is trying to indicate that it knows mankind is sentient. It further goes on to say, /\ STFU humans and stop polluting my home.
It may have taught itself those noises? To try communicating. If so THAT would be incredible.

It's a photo booth/toxin remover, so 1/2 the photos are a clean Mr Poopybutthole and wife and 1/2 are of their sentient toxins trying to escape containment.

tldr: The decisions made in creating and rearing offspring are subject to a different set of moral criteria than all others because those decisions affect everyone.

Here's the problem with that thought. You didn't just make a decision that affected your life. Or even one that affected the lives of yourself and others you know. You intentionally created another sentient being. Because of human nature, that sentient being is now not just your responsibility, but everyone else's as well. Your decision quite literally affected the entire species. Or should I say infected.

There is no other decision anyone can make that has such an extent of repercussions (with the possible exception of murder). Whether you further choose to be responsible for your offspring is, from a decision making point of view, completely separate from the decision to create that offspring. And likewise, the decisions you make regarding the care of that offspring are entirely separate from the decision to create it. Those decisions are, whether you like it or not, subject to critique. You may not like it, and you may in fact see the entire process (conception, birth, weaning, rearing, etc...) as a single act. Either way, the entirety of the species is now constrained by your initial act of creation. The question is not whether you are a “good parent”. The question is how much of a burden upon or boon to the species will you be.

Just to make this contrast clear…. if I, as thinking adult, decide to consume alcohol in such excess that it causes my liver to fail, I can ask the species to help me to the point of giving me a new liver - which may or may not be granted based on my own words and actions. If you ask a similar favor on behalf your offspring, however, it’s an entirely different moral calculus.

This video is the exact opposite of any problem with No Man's Sky. If the universe is hugely varied and procedurally generated, of course there will be a planet of fucked up steroid dinosaurs, and one with majestic brontosauruses, and one with sentient hydrogen, etc. This video makes you think that somewhere out there there is a planet that will be right for you, and gives you incentives to build the spaceship parts to get off the rock you're on and go in search of those perfect dinosaurs instead of staying with these freakish Belgian Blues.

There are valid criticisms against NMS, but this is more like a resounding endorsement of it.

Edit: Especially when paired with this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpoDZmH70S4

I don't consider the chemical reactions of plants to be the same. I said that 'even' plants have a response to negative stimuli. Animals have instinct, a response coded into their DNA, that allows them to respond to negative stimuli. Does that make them a fully sentient being, capable of self-awareness and logical thought? No, it doesn't.

Do insects have rational thought? Do clams or lobster have rational thought? If your entire goal is to avoid (formerly) living matter that can respond to negative stimuli, then why draw the line at plants? Do you really believe that a sea urchin has more capability of self-awareness than a head of lettuce?

This is the fallacy of logic that lies at the core of vegan ideology. Vegans say "I will eat this item because it doesn't understand pain!" when there are, in fact, many life forms that do not understand pain beyond a stimulus reaction.

Laughable. First you quote from a site that anyone would recognize as 100% pushing it's own agenda, then you fail to see that the site you are referencing is happy to toss terms like apex predator around. The very definition of Apex Predator is a predator at the top of a food chain.

If you bothered to learn anything other than regurgitate information that is basically dogma that they want you to spread, you could have easily clicked on one of the links at the bottom of the paper you reference, links that blow gaping holes into the 'science' that supports yours viewpoint.

Here is one: http://www.pnas.org/content/111/9/E796.long

The scientist used the same methodology and proved that in a REEF environment, Humans ARE apex predators. Why doesn't your dogmatic site list competitive theories? Does it not bother you that they are giving you information designed to influence others into following your beliefs without bothering to suggest counter-theories?

Personally, I consider both studies to be flawed, as we developed into an apex predator through use of tools. We trump other apex predators by either outsmarting them, using tools to defeat them (weapons,traps), or by changing their environment to suit ours (domestication, eradication).

For someone who is telling others to think outside the box, you have buried yourself IN the box on this issue. That's perfectly fine if you like it, but don't expect to not be called to task for it.

As far as morality goes, I know at least one of the two vegans here absolutely supports the development of new technological terrors (heh) that are designed to kill other humans. Since we are designing weapons to kill other humans, doesn't that go directly against the vegan outlook of do no harm to other sentient species for our own benefit? Eh, @transmorpher?