Mental health is a pretty big issue that is connected. So are socio-economic issues. There is a bigger puzzle of which access to firearms is only the last piece.

I don't think anyone should expect the NRA to address mental health. This is not their mandate. They exist to champion firearm rights. Mental health or other issues are some other lobby group or the general population's responsibility.

The Australian and New Zealand law changes show that restricting the types of firearm, caliber, and magazine capacities has little to no effect. There are multiple studies (the majority in fact) concluding that the draconian Australian laws didn't even affect the homicide by firearm rate.

Mental health is a completely separate issue that's being used as a distraction. It's certainly worthy of discussion but it does not belong as part of the gun debate.

I am not for banning weapons.

I would, however, set the bar for ownership so high that only committed hobbyists would own the most extreme weapons.

The more potentially impactful the weapon, the higher the bar. I have no problem with someone casually walking into a store and buying a bolt-action .22 target rifle or a break action sporting shotgun with a fast background check. The licensing, training and security check requirements would then grow progressively stringent until you get to fast shooting, large ammo capacity, medium-large caliber weapons. At which point there should be annual training and recertification requirements, in-home verification of safe storage compliance, thorough background checks and anything else.

Any committed hobbyist is already training regularly with their firearms and storing them safely. The certification requirements are no more than a verification of the practices they already follow. What's needed is to weed out the casual purchasers, the revenge-fantasy dreamers and the paramilitary idiots.

I'm honestly rather confused about the NRA stance (or lack thereof) with regards to mental health.

"Guns don't kill people, people kill people." OK. So... Wouldn't it make sense to go after those people that are the problem, then? Crazies with guns equals pressure to take away the guns from everybody, which is exactly what you don't want. Wouldn't mild inconvenience of background checks / licensing be better than bans? (from NRA perspective)

Thanks for that link -- really good.

I do think that "the left" is perhaps a bit too focused on specific weapon or accessory types. AR-15's, bump stocks, magazine sizes, etc. It's not completely ridiculous to say that if we banned AR-15's with 20-30 shot magazines, most of these shooters would just move on to the next best thing; maybe a Ruger Mini 14 or something with a 15 shot magazine.

Would that mitigate some of the deadly potential? Sure. Slightly. But it wouldn't prevent things at all, just (slightly) mitigate them. That might be worth doing, but it isn't beneficial enough to be what we should be focusing on.


I think two things could help contribute to prevention. Registration, and Licensing.

Step 1) Anyone who owns or purchases a firearm would be legally required to get it/them registered. Serial numbers (if they exist), etc. Anyway, descriptions of the weapon(s) on file and linked to a registered owner. If a firearm is used in a crime, the registered owner could be partially liable for that crime. Crime resulting in death? Owner subject to charges of negligent manslaughter. Violent crime, but no deaths? Owner subject to charges of conspiracy to commit X. Registered owner finds one or more of their firearms stolen or missing? Report them as such, and your liability could be removed or mitigated. Failure to register a firearm would also carry criminal penalties.

Step 2) Anyone who wants to use a firearm would be legally required to get a license. Licensing requires taking a proficiency and safety test. The initial license would require practical examination (safety and proficiency) at a range. Initial licensing and renewals (every 4 years?) would require passing a written test of knowledge about ownership laws, safety, etc. Just like a driver's license. And just like a driver's license, there could be things that might reasonably preclude your ability to get a license. Felony record? No license for you. Mental health issues? No license for you.


The NRA loves to tout themselves as responsible gun owners. Well, responsible people take responsibility. Remember that one kid in your class back in third grade that talked back to the teacher, so she made you all stay in and read during recess? Yeah, he ruined it for the rest of you. Guess what -- that's happening again. These nutjobs that shoot up schools or into a crowd of civilians are ruining things for the rest of you. We've tried unfettered access and an extremely lax interpretation of the second amendment. It didn't work out well. For evidence, compare the US to any other developed country on Earth.

Guns are a part of American culture, to an extent that taking them away completely would be ... problematic. But there are many, many things between the nothing that we're doing now and that.

You may not buy the concept of internalized sexism, racism and homophobia. Doesn't make it any less true. Mental health professionals who have studied the human condition as it exists, rather than how we want it to be, have helped identify the phenomena.

And yeah. I call it "dueling monologues." It is tiresome, isn't it?

Thanks for engaging with me.

I'm off on a tiny hike today. Apparently with all the rain we have been getting, the waterfall near Brinnon WA is a gorgeous torrent of water. And someone else is driving, so that is good!

My post was in the context of mass murder and gun regulation. Blaming the gun, fearing the tool and having a knee jerk response to do 'something' to avoid something like this - I think leads to initiatives that just will not have any true effect unless we examine everything at play here. People get very frustrated and want solutions right away. Gun regulation is an easy out. But in the end, what really needs to be looked at is mental health issues, poverty issues, resource access issues, venue security and education for more returns on your investment. People intent on mass murder are just not going to be deterred or hindered by regulations.

Wait...your take there is that Muslims are <1/4 as violent as Christians? Did you get whiplash turning around that fast?
What would I propose?
First, more assistance for the indigent, as economic status is far more important than race when determining a person's likelihood to use a gun on others. Remove the desperation, I expect you stop well over 1/2 of gun violence.
Second, recognizing that fighting the advanced military with semi auto rifles is futile, I would ban all full auto and mods, and extended mags with a buy back at market value (granted, a ban doesn't remove them, but stops more from being legally sold).
Don't pretend that, because that wouldn't stop all gun crime, it's useless. There is no silver bullet, that's no reason to take a moonlit walk on the moors during werewolf season. You can't stop all auto deaths, but we still stop people from jogging on the freeway

Edit: I agree with better mental health reporting/testing and better background checks (not necessarily longer, but remove the congressional roadblocks to making it near instant, nation wide, computerized, and more thorough)
Gun free zones are a failed experiment...ask DC. Unless you search everyone and everything entering the zone, it's worse than useless.

Pakistan are 95%+ Muslime They follow a higher power..
371 murder cases, 28 cases of gang murder, nine of abduction for ransom, 4 terrorism incidents were registered in 2015,
not quite as violent as America.

Then look at who is doing the shooting?
Lone nuts--- insignificant
Pissed off spouses -- insignificant
Inner city gang bangers -- root cause of American gun violence

Inner cities have excessive gun violence. Why is that?
No jobs?
No respect for life?
No desire to educate oneself to get out of the situation?
No real deterrent for gun use?

Would a strict gun free zone in such high gun use are be an OK solution that carries the strictest punishment for those that commit crimes with guns ( as apposed to guns being used to defend)? Ho about a 1 year of PSA on the local media before it goes into effect? then strictly enforced?


Until you can get people to respect life and or use the strictest punishment -- I think this will continue.

Better mental health links to ATF where friends and worker can nark to the ATF? This also might help send a flag to re investigate and or to investigate even more on the background check.

Longer waiting period to give ATF more time to do more thorough background check.



What would you propose?

I think we could draw from this. How about all US citizens that want to purchase a gun have to take a comprehensive exam that test knowledge not just of the 2nd amendment, but also the entire constitution, branches of government, federalist vs anti-federalist arguments, all supreme court cases directly involving challenges to the 2nd amendment, etc. Throw in a federally mandated mental health check from an accredited shrink and voila, guns are taken from the hands of those fighting erectile disfunction and put in the hands of those that actually care about the nation.

PS: don't go off on a tangent about how then only the bad guys will have guns and then we'll all get murdered like, all the time. That's a bs argument and you know it.

You are as diluted as Newtboy. Guns are regulated to great extent.

You can make all guns illegal and still bad guys will use them. Better to let good guys have access to them also.

The bump stock ad-on this guy used would never be useful except in the situation he was in.. No accuracy just spraying lead down stream..

In America guns are as plentiful as roaches... impossible to rid yourself of them.


The guy could have used any other method using legally obtained items ( like his guns). He could have use Nitrogen fertilizer like the Oklahoma city bombing back in 1995.

If you want to kill people your going to find a way.

The guy appears to be more mental than anything else. Better to improve mental health laws and let finds/ workers to have a anonymous line to ATF to say hey this guy might be a danger to community.. And let that be a trigger when/if he applies to get a gun - which entail a more thorough background check

You’re right. Cars and trucks are deadly in the wrong hands.

Which is why we regulate them. You need a licence to drive one. You are tested to see if you are a competent driver. People with serious mental health issues are restricted from driving and there are MASSIVE industry regulations that attempt to make these vehicles safer.

There’s also entire departments dedicated to studying road fatalities.

None of which is true of guns. The CDC can’t even STUDY gun violence.

If he really received those orders from his supervisor then it's pretty scary still that this fuckface did not have the common sense/decency to question that order when it was obvious the nurse was following protocol but was also stuck between policy & navigating an unfamiliar situation.

I sentence the pig to 6 months in a mental health facility and 2 DMT injections a week to diffuse his ego & expand his consciousness (and maybe he goes to hell once or twice).

he's very good at making his arguments sound plausible, but I don't think we should let someone starve to death so that they can learn a lesson; there's also bottoms that you can't climb back out of... severe mental health issues, can't get a job when you're homeless because you can't present yourself well, can't get a job because you have a record

mental health funding is cut too so get ready for shootings to go up

could have fixed Obamacare anytime over the last 7 years, but R's don't give a rip about YOU (unless you're rich)

I don't like his delivery but I like the message at the end. The perception people have of suicide in the US is crazy. It's a health issue and the US has shitty mental health services and a poor understanding of mental health issues... Just throw some powerful drugs on it and it will go away (and make me rich in the process)! On top of that, the US economy is depressing the hell out of a greater number of people, a lot of people after being out of work for a while or not having enough money will just choose to go. So, it's a political issue as well due to the class warfare that has been waged in the US especially since the 80's.

But to add some flame to it - sometimes I wonder if some of the people I know who chose to end it early - made a wise decision just to end it; maybe they thought it through to the nth degree and it was a solid choice - and the remaining mourning people are just selfish "no, you must live in this temporary fucked up little world with ME!!" or "don't remind me that I'm going to die too!" lol